When to fold Jacks ?

[BlackTyson]

German Open 50.000$ Guaranteed @ Pokerstars

I decided to play this event for 10+1$ (4351 players and no rebuys   )

Only Germans I think (means a quite crazy bunch   )

I'm into this game for about 4 hours, sitting with 57K in chips.
I'm already in the money (50 or 60 bucks)
I'm in the BB (5K) and was dealt JJ.

Player 1 , sitting in mid position, raised 22K and is allin
Player 2 , the button, reraised to 45K and had 90K left  

SB folds, now I have to act  
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[Miklosik]

player 1 is short stack and has a marginal hand.  Ace rag, KJ, QJ...
player 2 is trying to isolate with his Big Bad Ace or mid pair.
you already have 5k invested and only 10xbb left.  If it were me, I'm all in.
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[HOUSECATS]

I would fold both players probably have over cards. If one of them hit you are out or short stack. You only have 2 outs wait for a good position hand and push.
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[addam00]

I -proably fold too..
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[harry_lime]

yep, i would fold to the raise and a re-eaise here especially as the bigger stack is now pot committed.

if i'm going to be all-in, short stacked with jacks, i want a one on one race or at least to be the first raising into the pot.
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[Miklosik]

I'm still all in.  All three players are short stacked.  There were 4000+ starters so there are more than 12m chips out there.  Already to the money so it's late in the tournament.  50k and 90k are very little in the grand scheme of things.  She doesn't need outs.  She has the best hand I think.  

This is a perfect example of where our mindset has deteriorated to. (dangling participle, sorry).  We think that because two someone's have overcards then we are the underdog.  If both of those other players hold aces, then they have two outs.  I think that they are both praying to hit and Niti already has.

There is the chance that player two has an over pair.  So be it.  I'd still play the jacks.
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[PoolDemon]

It's probabley a coin toss, we all can be pretty sure what they might have for hands and that you are probabley ahead...

Normally, when facing a raise & a re-raise, it's wise to fold JJ, but your sitting with 10BB's left, and you have a chance to triple up (counting the ante's that shoud be in play @ that stage) it's an insta push I feel, but again, only because of your chip stack size.
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[Ramster]

I think in this situation i wanna get my money in first If the button folds then its a no brainer but with 2 hands to beat your at best in a race
I agree with HC here
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[DangerMouse]

Easy, although reluctant fold. The shortstack has a pretty wide range to push with but the re-raiser probably has AK,AQ, maybe even a bigger pair than jacks and with 10xbb you can just about afford to pass this.

I can see the argument for pushing but personally I`d fold.
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[PoolDemon]

I see a few replies in favor of folding, I can see why as it's either a coin toss or maybe even behind etc...a raise & a re-raise does indeed make JJ look weak, and a good fold under different circumstances.

My thinking is if you only have 10BB's left and already in the money, faced with a chance to triple up (or bust of course, but to win you need to win a race once in awhile right...) so why not take a chance to actually win it all, instead of limping up a bit further in the money ?
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[Arjonius]

There's a pretty fair chance I'd shove at the table, but upon a bit of reflection, I think folding is somewhat preferable.  If I push, the button will have to call, so I have to beat him regardless of what happens against the short stack.  

And should I factor in that he only min-raised rather than shove over the top?  It looks like he wouldn't mind if the blinds don't fold - which smells like on overpair to my JJ.  If the SB had a large stack, it's possible the button min-raised with less than JJ and was willing to fold away a third of this stack if the SB pushed.  But that's an optimistic scenario that only accounts for part of his overall range.

[BlackTyson]

Thanks all for the replies    and I can see AND understand all points there - push because of chipstack or fold because of the reraise - that was my thinking.

Of course I have to tell you now what happened.

I used all my time, and ..... folded.


Player 1 shows    
Player 2 shows      

board was          

Player 2 wins with Ace high  

Niti = frustrated but happy with her 67th place and 80$  
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[Know-nuffin]

...
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[alby_00]

I think with 10 bb left it is still a good time to fold.. with less the 8 push..with 10bb there is no panic..if the button never played there it is an easy call against the shortstack who is under 5 bb and would push with a wide variety of hands in this situation..harrigton says push any 2 there. But with a larger stack coming over the top i feel tournament equity takes over and with no chips you can go no farther.. JJ agaist a likely 2 to 3 overcards is not going to win a high % of the time..JJ against KQ and Ace rag is only 35.5%...i want a bigger edge when i push my tourney life.

[BC7Falcons7]

To me it depends on how the guy with 90k left has been playin. If hes been playin loose or you think hes just trying to steal I'd go allin preflop. However if he's been kinda tight and made a big raise it would probably be smart to fold and see what he had.

[birdie7]

I had a pair of JJ's earlier tonite and went all in  and lost to 3 9's. The flop revealed the 3rd nine. I would do it again if I had to.
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